Turn the Other Cheek

Turn the Other Cheek

Feb 23/2014       Matthew 5: 38-41

The hardest thing that I have ever had to do in my life time is parenting – nurturing, loving and disciplining my children in the hopes that they will grow up to happy, healthy, and productive members of society – sometimes it feels like I know what I am doing and things go reasonably well but often it feels like a crap shoot – where you roll the dice and hope the choice that you have made to deal with one of their issues is the right one and you are not going to screw up your children so that they will need years of therapy after they are grown up. 

My most challenging child so far– and he know this so I am not sharing any family secrets here – it’s my middle son Foster – He was an easy baby – loved the bath, liked to cuddle, and slept through the night really early – but after he turned one and began to walk things began to change – first it was his need to go bolting away from me at break neck speeds off into parking lots and across busy streets – then we began to notice that he really did not interact with his peers – when we would be at play groups Foster would be in the sand box while all the other kids rode the tricycles – and when the other kids would be in the sandbox, Foster would be on the tricycle.  By the time he reached school – we knew that there was something different about my son but it was hard to put your finger on just what – so he struggled and we struggled to find some way to help him cope and adjust to school.  It was not only at school either – his struggling with his peers crept into beavers and hockey and swimming – pretty much any area that required participating in a group.  A child who does not fit in is a target – a target for other kids to pick on and picked on was something that Foster experienced many many times throughout his school years.  

The very worst time for Foster coincided with my very worst time of my life as well – he was 14 , and his father and I had just separated, I had to find new employment and so within a very short time line I accepted a appointment to a new church and my sons and I moved the second week of September.  This was the year Foster started grade 9 – and as an outsider and a kid who did not know how to handle social situations – it was a disaster waiting to happen.  Right from the get go – Foster was targeted – on the bus, in the halls, in the classroom.  He would come home from school with his clothes torn – food on his coat (they would throw food at him from the bus as he walked down the street)  and stories of persecution.  I spent a lot of time on the phone with the school and in the principal’s office trying to figure out how to make Foster’s year better for him.  The worst of the perpetrators was a boy named Max – he lived in the same small town we did so Foster was unable to escape him even on the weekends.  Max looked like a bully – he was a big boy who outweighed Foster by about 50 lbs, he used to wear those slouchy jean that fall of the kids backside –and a hoodie that he kept pulled low over his head.  He often had a sullen look on his face , everything about his appearance said he was mean.   Foster hated him – he could not and would not see anything in Max that was good – and as a mother who was trying to teach my children how to forgive, how to care for and to relate well to others, how to live compassion instead of vengeance, how to live love instead of hate– this boy Max was Foster’s undoing.

Once, however in the midst of the bullying that my son Foster was experiencing, I was outside raking leaves – and piling them up and putting them into bags.  My sons were in the house – ignoring what I was doing hoping I think that I would forget that they were there so that they would not be asked to help.  As I was working on this beautiful fall day – Max walked by – I knew who he was and I knew how tormenting he was to my son, he turned and asked if I wanted help – flabbergasted I said sure and handed him a rake.  For the next half an hour he helped me rake and bag leaves – and then when the lawn was clear – said goodbye and sauntered off.  I just witnessed something in Max that I never expected, and the longer we lived in the community, the more I learned about Max and his situation – the more this bully’s face became human – he was the child of a father that was a known wife and child beater – the rumour mill talked of incidents where Max was poorly treated by his father – and his mother was unable to protect him. 

We don’t always know why people do what they do and what trauma’s they have experienced in their lives that cause then to act out in meanness towards others – I would love to be able to tell you that Foster and Max were able to get by their conflict together and are now the best of friends – but that is not what happened – what happened is that the more Foster got to understand that Max’s life was a struggle – the more understanding came and the less hate Foster had for Max – and now when they pass each other on the street because they both live in Owen Sound – they can nod politely at each – say ‘hey’ other and carry on in their separate lives.

Turn the other cheek –says Jesus – give your cloak - walk the second mile – hard stuff – it is something that feels impossible when you are Foster and you have been bullied so often – but that is exactly what we are called to do –and it is to us that Jesus is talking to this morning.

We are still on the same mountain we have been on for the last three weeks – we are still listening to the same dialogue that Jesus is sharing with his disciples and the crowds – remember the words that Jesus began with – blessings of the poor, the meek, those who seek righteousness – not the usual people you think of when you hear the word blessed – and then he reminds the people who are listening about who they are and their relationship with the God – You are the light of the world, you are the salt of the earth – we carry the God light within and are commissioned to shine this God light back to the world and then we get to this part of the discourse – these antithesis – is what the scholars call them – the ‘You have heard it said – but I say to you’ speech that we heard the beginning of last week and hear the rest of them today -  you have heard it said “an eye for an eye” – but I tell you this – turn the other cheek, give you other cloak, walk the second mile…, if you are anything like me – this is really hard stuff – really radical stuff that Jesus is talking about.  We as humans often when feeling persecuted, victimized, oppressed, or misunderstood – respond by retaliating, seeking revenge, plotting distruction, running away or curling up in a ball and ignore all the feelings of hurt and disappointment.  

But here Jesus is saying, there is another way. Not repaying violence with violence, not cowering in submission, but responding without violence, by acting in a different way – by choosing a different way of responding – turning the other cheek, walking the second mile, sharing you other cloak – by forgiveness of those who trespass against us.

(Slide One/Two)

In Great Britian there is a remarkable organization called the Forgiveness Project – you can read on the screen what they are all about – in a nut shell they are about helping people choose to forgive those that trespass against them – and freeing themselves of anger and a need for retribution and the pain that lingers  from not forgiving another who has hurt you.  I would like to share a few stories from some of the people who have learned the value of forgiveness.

(Slide Three) Meet Julie Chimes

In 1986 Julie Chimes let an acquaintance wait in her cottage for her boyfriend who was a doctor to get home.  The acquaintance was schizophrenic and recently had taken herself of her medication She attacked Julie with a kitchen knife in a mission to save the world in the name of Jesus.
Julie was saved because she managed to get out of the house and passerby were able to disarm the assailant and call for an ambulance. 
Julie says:  “I have learnt that this inner place of forgiveness and peace is available to everyone, everywhere and in any circumstance. I now know when there is understanding there can be compassion. When compassion arises there can be forgiveness. Where there is forgiveness there is peace.”

(Slide Four) Meet Tom Tate

In March 1945, airman Tom Tate was on special duties over Germany when his plane was hit by fire. The crew bailed out. Seven of them were captured a few hours later near the village of Huchenfeld, close to the town of Pforzheim. A month earlier Pforzheim had been destroyed in a massive RAF bombing raid killing 18,000 people. Revenge was in the air. The British airmen were dragged to a nearby cemetery to be executed by a group of Hitler Youth. Only Tom and one other crewmember escaped.
Tom was caught the next day and placed in a prisoner of war camp.  The perpetrators of the crime were tried at the War Crimes trials in Essen the following year, and the ringleaders were sentenced to death.
Tom says:  “I had no compassion. I despised them and said to my wife that I was never going back to Germany.”
But then, 50 years later, Tom read in a magazine about a village that asked for forgiveness – it was Huchenfeld.  They were holding a ceremony Tom did not attend but went to the community the following week.  These his words about his reception in the town:
“I arrived the following week I was given such an enthusiastic welcome. It was clear I had become a symbol of reconciliation. I was greeted by so many people, all of whom wanted to shake my hand. Guilt had hung over the village for years, but by going there it somehow changed things for them. I was so welcomed, and so well looked after.  When someone comes with arms open to embrace you, you can’t feel enmity any more. The act of friendship invites forgiveness.”

(slide five) Meet Bud Welch

In April 1995, Bud Welch’s 23-year-old daughter, Julie Marie, was killed in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
Unable to deal with the pain of Julie’s death, he started self-medicating with alcohol until eventually the hangovers were lasting all day. Then, on a cold day in January 1996, I came to the bombsight – as I did every day – and I looked across the wasteland where the Murrah Building once stood. My head was splitting from drinking the night before and I thought, “I have to do something different, because what I’m doing isn’t working.”
About a year before the execution I found it in my heart to forgive Tim McVeigh. It was a release for me rather than for him.

(slide six)  Meet Andrew Rice

Andrew’s brother David was killed in the World Trade Centre. Andrew is a member of Peaceful Tomorrows, a group founded by family members of September 11 victims seeking effective non-violent responses to terrorism.
They were contacted by the mother of the alleged 20th hijacker, Zacharias Moussaoui.  She wanted to meet some of the families of the victims and ask for their forgiveness.
A small group of us agreed to meet Madame al-Wafi in New York City in November 2002. Andrew shares his experience:  “As we waited in a private university building, a mother whose son was killed in the World Trade Centre went down the hall to meet her. We heard footsteps, then silence. Then we heard this sobbing. Finally they both came into the room, both mothers with their arms around each other. By now we were all crying. Madame al-Wafi reminded me a lot of my own mother, who had cried so much after David died. She spent three hours with us and told us how the extremist group had given her mentally ill son a purpose in life.” 

(slide eight) and Penny Beernsten  reminds us that forgiveness is equally as hard when you need to forgive yourself

 (slide nine)  Desmond Tutu
“To forgive” says Desmond Tutu: “is not just to be altruistic, it is the best form or self interest”

(Slide 10 and leave it here until the end of the sermon)
And Jesus sits on a hill and talks to the people – at their level, to their hearts – speaks to them of things that matter.  It may not be what the people want to hear – it may not be comforting words or even soothing words – but they are true words – words and thoughts about how the world should be when God’s kingdom comes – words and thoughts about how people should treat each other, and care for each other and let go of stuff such as vengeance and anger and malice and retribution.

We know that each and every one of us at some point in our life time will be at that place where someone will

·       hurt us

·       slander us

·       abuse us

·       neglect us

·       torment us

·       bully us

·       lie about us

·       betray us

·       cheat us

·       or cheat on us

We know that for each of us there will come a time when we need to be able to forgive.  And we have a choice – to get the eye for an eye – to seek revenge, strive for retribution – or knock out a tooth for the tooth knocked out, and pursue payback –it is the message our world give us - but God wants something different from us – God wants love and concern and caring and valuing of each other and not vengeance and anger and retaliation.

God wants us to forgive the sins of others as our sins have been forgiven us.  To turn the other cheek, to share the extra cloak, to walk the second mile, to forgive those that trespass against us.  And as we are in relationship with one another and with God, we can know that there is something beautiful to be found in the process when love and justice work to restore brokenness, seek forgiveness, and strive for reconciliation. God’s kingdom comes and God’s will is done.  Thanks be to God.  Amen.

Fresh Perspective

Fresh Perspective

February 16/ 2014   Matthew 5:21-37

A few years ago, when my eldest son graduated from basic training for the Canadian Navy, Elizabeth, my son Foster and myself took the train from Toronto to Montreal, so we could be with Rhys as he graduated.  I had rented a car before we left online.  The website indicated that the car rental had an office in the train station.  And they did have an office at the train station just not the train station that we disembarked at.  The car that I had ordered and put a deposit on was at other train station at the other end of the city – after many phone calls, and new forms and further agreements to multiple signatures later and at a car dealership a few blocks from the train station – we managed to rent a car.

A compact car was procured and me and my little family set off to St Jean sur Richeleiux with explicit directions from the man at the car rental place about how to get from downtown Montreal to the express way that would take me south.  So off we go onto the city streets and expressways of Montreal  – how many of you have ever driven in Montreal? – what an experience – it was very easy for me to get turned around, and before I knew it I was headed north instead of south and due to all the road rules about not being able to merge here and no left turns there and detour signs for construction that had me veering off the route I had been given.  I had to continue to drive north for almost half an hour before I could get turned around and go the proper way.

We arrived only about an hour later than we thought – booked into our room and realized that we had forgotten our bathing suits – and of course the hotel had a pool.  Elizabeth really wanted to swimming and I had noticed a Zellers as we drove through town – so back into our little car to shop for bathing suits.  Finding a bathing suit for a little girl in November in Quebec is not as easy as you may think – the pickings were slim – although the price was right on the mark down rack in the middle of the store – it took a while to find a size the would fit – we eventully found a two piece but although I found two pieces, the top was a size 5 and the bottom a size 4.  I was pleased that I had found two pieces that matched but when I took them to the check out – imagine my surprise when I was not allowed to buy this suit because both pieces had a piece missing – so the size 5 top was missing its bottom and the size 4 bottom was missing its top – and therefore the cashier could not sell me the items – even when I offered to pay for two bathing suits, she was sorry she said, she wished she could help me but it was against the rules – Elizabeth went swimming in a tee shirt and underwear.  Which I imagine, was against the hotel rules.

Are you hearing my theme yet?  Rules and regulations – policies and procedures – instructions and directions – a common theme of that weekend.

And the next day – it was the biggest display of rules yet – all these men and woman in regulation army/navy and air force uniforms marching to the beat of their drill Sargent’s voice – how to walk, when to talk, where to stand, what to wear, not even allowed to smile.  There were no little waves of recognition across the parade grounds – or covert smiles to let us know that he even knew we were there – for over an hour this tightly regulated regimented marching, standing, saluting, parading soldiers maintained a strict code of conduct.  

It was a weekend of rules – it is remarkable to me how we as humans create rules and policies and procedures more often than not to protect, keep safe, make things easier, but what often happens instead is that the rules take over – and instead of about freedom and ease and better understanding – it becomes about regulations and loss of freedom and just plain old frustration         

but

you have heard it said says Jesus 

Jesus is on the mountain top in the midst of the sermon on the mount.  He is talking to the people about who they are and whose they are and what God wants from them and their lives.  Remember these are people of the law – people who know rules and regulations, know that there is right and wrong and it is clearly defined, and if a mistake is made a transgression occurs there are more rules on how to deal with it – what sort of sacrifice to the temple gets made for cheating – lying – or general disobedience – a dove a goat a lamb will be sacrificed and the all would be well – at least until the next time.  This is the understanding that Jesus is speaking to today – he is holding before the people some of their rules, their laws, and saying to them – consider what you know.

Cause the thing about rules and regulations and laws is that they often lose their intention, and become arbitrary – that is to say a rule is made to protect and keep people safe but at some point the original purpose gets lost in the maintaining of the rule.

Take for instance the rules that we have created on airplanes – a group of men boarded planes in September of 2001 and armed with box cutters – took over the planes and crashed them into buildings.  So, how to make this not happen again – do not allow anything that can be considered a weapon on a plane – so all of a sudden, knitting needles and sewing kits and razors can no longer be carried on to the plane. But then someone decided that they could carry liquids in their shoes that could be made into bombs – and so liquids get banned and toothpaste and makeup and water is confiscated before the security gates – and them another creates some sort of bomb that he wears in his underwear and the next thing you know we have full body scans and pat downs.  All in the name of security  - all as a safety measure to protect us -.  I wonder how much more protection we actually really need – and I also wonder when common sense got left behind.

In Jesus day the rules and regulations grew and grew as well – so the 10 commandments that Moses shared by the time Jesus came into the world – these 10 all encompassing laws had grown to 623 laws – all there to help people live right and just and godly lives – but one of the problems with 623 laws is that you hardly know which one to take seriously – which ones are more important, which ones really matter to God.  I would imagine that it would be easy to get a picture of God as being a judge on at throne that only cares about the rules and the letter of the law, when you listen to all the laws in the book of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

But wait – hear what is being said this morning - Jesus is here to say something different – remember where we have come from – Jesus is on the mountain and begins by saying – you know all those pious law keepers who brag about their righteousness – God is actually blessing the poor and the meek, those who more, those who thirst for justice – yours is the kingdom of heaven.  This is our first clue that Jesus is speaking against the established ideas and understandings about who God is and what God wants from his people, then he goes on to remind the people that God is their God too!  God does not belong only to the religious authorities, or ‘special’ people – God is in relationship with them, the ordinary people and they are the ones who live God’s love, they are the salt of the earth and the light of the world, using the words of Jesus.  

You have heard it said  says Jesus  that you should not murder (#6 of the 10 Commandments)  but I say to you – says Jesus - but consider this from a different places says Jesus – it is not only about the letter of the law – it is about more than that – It is about relationship says Jesus – your relationship to other, not only in how you treat them on the outside, but how you think of them on the inside.

You have heard it said says Jesus, you shall not commit adultery (# 7 of the 10 commandments) but I say to you  – Jesus says – adultery is more that a clearly defined action – it is more than that, it is about relationships with others and how you treat them not only outwardly but inwardly as well.

You have heard it said says Jesus “You shall not swear falsely, but carry out the vows you have made to the Lord.’ (addressing # 3 of the ten commandments) But I say to you – using Eugene Peterson’s words from the Message of Jesus words:

"And don't say anything you don't mean. This counsel is embedded deep in our traditions. You only make things worse when you lay down a smoke screen of pious talk, saying, 'I'll pray for you,' and never doing it, or saying, 'God be with you,' and not meaning it. You don't make your words true by embellishing them with religious lace. In making your speech sound more religious, it becomes less true. Just say 'yes' and 'no.' When you manipulate words to get your own way, you go wrong."

Jesus wants his disciples – Jesus wants us to be people of integrity, people who are faithful to their promises, people who do what they say, and say what they mean,  people who have no need to swear that they are telling the truth because they always tell the truth. We should be people who honor our commitments in marriage and in all our covenant relationships  - who treat each other and ourselves with respect and who respect the commitments of others. And then Jesus address some of the unfairness and inequality of how woman were treated in his time and place because at that time woman were being discarded for small or imagined infractions and a woman 2000 years ago with no husband or other male in their live often had no status, no resources and lived on the edge of society – so Jesus reminds the disciples that women are people and are not to be used and abandoned at will. They are also among the ones who are now blessed by God’s reign. In his words, Jesus is providing a glimpse of God’s kingdom come, a fresh perspective on the rules and regulations, the codes of conducts and policies and procedures that get in the way of living the Kingdom.  

Think about it says Jesus – think about the law as being more than just a list of rules or regulations or policies or procedure – because the law is meant to give you life which is the better choice – remember who you are says Jesus, remember whose you are and live your life accordingly.

Remember says Jesus - – you are the ones in God’s heart – you are the light the world – you are the salt of the earth – you are God’s beloved children, and so is every single one of the people  you will encounter this day – we are invited to live our lives as God’s beloved children where our “yes’s” can be “yes” and our “no’s” can be “no’s”, and God’s kingdom comes, and God’s will is done.  Amen.

Salt and Light

Sermon on the Mount – Radiance

February 9/2014     Matthew 5:13-20

The Olympics have begun – how many of you watched the opening ceremonies on Friday afternoon or evening?  What a spectacle – the mascots were something didn’t you think their facial animation was eerie - and the Russian display of  - its history – a great big exhibition show – you were able to forget about all the difficulties and problems and issues that lead up to the games – amidst all the glitters and glitz – the light show and the music – it was hard to remember that woman were strapping bombs to themselves and setting them off in public places killing themselves and others in protest, and that for some of the route the Olympic flame was so heavily guarded the people had to buy tickets and watch the torch from stadium stands as it was run around the track – and then what about the people were displaced in order to build the venues and not to mention the furor that Russia’s anti -gay laws have caused – there was  a while before the games actually began when I began to wonder whether they would actually happen – there seemed so much standing in the way – but they did it – everything was ready and last night all the athletes came together and celebrated the opening of the 2014 Winter Olympic Games -  I am glad that last night all the other incidents and challenges  seemed to dissipate and instead the focus became on the athletes and the nations and hopefully – ultimately what the Olympic games are really about – sport and excellence.  

The piece that I thought was particularly moving was in the parade of nations – What I appreciate are the teams that are so small one or two athletes representing a whole nation –for instance there was  one person from Tibet – a cross country skier., and one from the British Virgin Islands, a snowboarder – and  I still get excited when I see the Jamaican bobsled team – what a great spirit – these five men training in a country that has not snow, no ice and no toboggans – and what is wonderful about their story is that there are very limited funds for this team so they crowd sourced their money for their travel and expenses during the games – crowd sourcing is putting it out on the internet and inviting the world to contribute – in less than 48 hours they had raised over $100,000.  I love what the flag bearer from Iceland said:  “Many think that because our country’s name is Iceland, it is a country of snow and ice, but it isn’t. Iceland has never won a medal in the Winter Olympics and we will not win in Sochi, either. My goal is to be in the top 50 in the cross country sprint.” Stories such as these remind us that these games are not about our medal count, or even owning the podium – they are about the human spirit – about what it is to be committed to something, and train hard  and be dedicated and try your best and participate fully and to be a part of something bigger than yourself.  Which is exactly what Jesus is talking about up on the hillside this morning – being committed and dedicated, trying your best , participating fully and being a part of something bigger that we can ever be  on our own.  Salt and light.

You are the light of the world
You are the light of the world
But the tallest candlestick
Ain't much good without a wick
You got to stay bright to be the light of the world

We rejoin Jesus on the hill this morning – remember he has just begun his ministry where he was baptized by John in the Jordan, spent some time in the dessert, called his first disciples, and has been healing the sick and curing the diseased and sharing the Word of God in various synagogues around the area.  He has become a popular speaker and many seek him out to hear what he has to say – today  a large crowd has followed him and so he goes up a mountain – sits down, the crowd follows and finds themselves a place to sit and listen to what he has to say – we join the crowds today in the midst of a conversation – about God and the kingdom – and Jesus is explaining just how different God wishes the world was – and how the values that seem to be the most prevalent among people are not what God values.  

After lifting up the mostly unlikely people – the poor in spirit, the meek and the merciful, those who mourn and those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, the pure in heart, the peacemakers, and the persecuted – and calling them "blessed," Jesus then addresses the crowd as "you," and offers them words of both reassurance and challenge. 

You are the light of the world, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to God.  You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how can its saltiness be restored?

David Lose writes:  “Notice, for instance, that Jesus doesn’t give … instructions on how to become salt and light. Rather, he just plain tells them that that’s what they are. “You are the salt of the earth. You are the light of the world.” Goodness, he doesn’t even say that they’re “little lights” that they should let shine. Rather, he says they are the light of the world -- sheer promise and declaration….

And yet he also commissions them -- not commands, I think, but commissions them -- actually to be salt and light, to be the persons they’ve been called to be. To season and preserve the world, to let their light shine so that others will see their good works -- yes, good works! -- and glorify God. Jesus isn’t asking them to earn their salvation, of course, but to live out the salvation and discipleship that has been given them as a gift..”[1]

You are the salt of the earth
You are the salt of the earth
But if that salt has lost its flavor
It ain't got much in its favor
You can't have that fault and be the salt of the earth!

Sometimes it is hard for us to imagine that Jesus is really talking to us – how on earth can I be light and salt to this world – I am barely holding it together in my own little corner of the world – you may be suffering with health issues that have taken all your energy, maybe you are struggling with financial concerns that tend to occupy your mind – some of us are sad and lonely and have a hard time seeing the light in the world let alone claim the light as our own.  But it is really clear that Jesus is naming who he is talking to – and by virtue of Matthew’s recording of this – we as well as the disciples, we as well as the other listeners on the hillside – we are the ones who are salt and who are light.  I think this is good time to re-hear the words of Marianne Williamson – whose words were made famous by Nelson Mandela at his 1994 inaugural speech  as the newly elected president of South Africa.

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us most. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in all of us. And when we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

So as we witness the remarkable athletes preforming excellence in their sporting events – as they shine for all the world to see – we may think that our light is not as bright – or important – or relevant or even worthy of sharing -  it is not for us to compare ourselves to them – it is not for us to compare ourselves to anyone – God sees us for the unique individual that we all are – and it is to us that Jesus is speaking this morning.  We are being called by Jesus to be the light of the world.  We are being called in our own way – to use our own gifts – in our own corner of the world to be the light of God to others, to share the flavour of salt to the people that we meet in our day to day lives. 

Jesus’ words this week are meant to wake us, to remind us of what we carry in our bones: the living presence of the God who bids us be salt in this world in all our savory particularity; to be light in the way that only we can blaze.

You are the light of the world – you!

You are the salt of the earth – you!

So let your light shine- your salt be flavourful – and your life be blessed.  Thanks be to God.  Amen

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[1] David Lose:  Called and Commissioned to be Salt and Light, https://www.workingpreacher.org/craft.aspx?m=4377&post=3062, 2014